Comments on: Blogger Defensiveness http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/ The (r)Eevolution of Media Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:58:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: scott http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-660 scott Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:45:20 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-660 Damn, Brian -- take a Lexapro. Scott, you're a man of great restraint. Damn, Brian — take a Lexapro. Scott, you’re a man of great restraint.

]]> By: Squash » Blog Archive » The Next Gatekeepers http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-641 Squash » Blog Archive » The Next Gatekeepers Mon, 13 Feb 2006 04:00:05 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-641 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] As much as Doc is wrong in his belief that today’s blogosphere is a great big egalitarian delight, so too are the keepers of the Gatekeeper conspiracy. I’ve made numerous posts about the closed nature of the blogosphere so I’ve paddled down that stream before but before you cast your boat off in that direction again have a real look at the impact that aggregators are starting to have on the b’sphere. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] As much as Doc is wrong in his belief that today’s blogosphere is a great big egalitarian delight, so too are the keepers of the Gatekeeper conspiracy. I’ve made numerous posts about the closed nature of the blogosphere so I’ve paddled down that stream before but before you cast your boat off in that direction again have a real look at the impact that aggregators are starting to have on the b’sphere. [...]

]]> By: Publishing 2.0 » There’s Nothing Wrong With Gatekeepers http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-622 Publishing 2.0 » There’s Nothing Wrong With Gatekeepers Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:03:00 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-622 [...] In response to Seth’s post, mine, and a few others — Doc Searls writes a moving personal essay about his experience with gatekeepers. I understand Doc’s guilt about being a gatekeeper after having been held back by gatekeepers his whole life — but he shouldn’t feel guilty. As I said to him the other day: Doc’s filter and the filters of other “A-list” bloggers serve a hugely useful function — they help us make good use of our limited time to surf and read. [...] [...] In response to Seth’s post, mine, and a few others — Doc Searls writes a moving personal essay about his experience with gatekeepers. I understand Doc’s guilt about being a gatekeeper after having been held back by gatekeepers his whole life — but he shouldn’t feel guilty. As I said to him the other day: Doc’s filter and the filters of other “A-list” bloggers serve a hugely useful function — they help us make good use of our limited time to surf and read. [...]

]]> By: The Doc Searls Weblog : Saturday, February 11, 2006 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-610 The Doc Searls Weblog : Saturday, February 11, 2006 Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:42:36 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-610 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Wish listed   Jeneane Sessum:  The major analyst firms either need to offer a price/platform for indies and new media folks, OR new media folks need to start indie analyst gropus of their own, offering their findings at a price that's at least sort of affordable, which is not $3K for a report.  Or even better, a wikipedia version of research and analysis compilations.  Is something out there we (Jeneane, moi, her commenters so far) don't know?   Lose endings   Eric Raymond: Un-ending the Internet. Follow down through the comments. Interesting thread.   Offense post   In New Gatekeepers Are Still *GATEKEEPERS*, Seth Finkelstein calls my post yesterday on the matter of gatekeeping wrong and worse:  ...to be told that a page sitting out on the end of the Long Tail is somehow equal to that sort of megaphone, because everybody could *in theory* read it. They won't, and to say otherwise starts to become downright cruel.  Maybe he's right. I don't know.  I feel I'm in some kind of bind here.  I have this idea that the blogosphere is the one place in the world — or perhaps an entirely new world, or a part of a new world, created on the Net — where there is no need for class, for caste, for gates or keepers of anything.  To me this is a world where the only success that fully counts is in helping move good ideas along, in helping make this new world a bigger, better and more open place. And in helping others enjoy the privilege of participating in it.  I see this world as a place built on credits given, taken and passed along. I see this world as a place where it is at least possible to overcome disagreements, and to come to new agreements that would not be possible without the protocol, both technical and civil, we call the hyperlink.  I've always thought the most important thesis in Cluetrain was not the first, but the seventh: Hyperlinks subvert hierarchies.  What I've tried to say, in my posts responding to Tristan's, Scott's and others making the same point, is nothing more than what David Weinberger said in those three words.  I thought I was giving subversion advice in the post that so offended Seth. But maybe I was wrong. Maybe being widely perceived as a high brick in the blogosphere's pyramid gives my words an unavoidable hauteur — even if I'm busy insisting that all the 'sphere's pyramids are just dunes moving across wide open spaces.  I don't know.  I do know what it is like to be on the outside, to face gates far more closed than those anybody faces in the blogosphere.  In the caste systems of my childhood and youth -- athletics, academics, success with girls -- I was on the Z list. In sports I was nearly always the last one chosen when teams were picked. To girls I was a bad dancer with buck teeth (one of them broken until I was seventeen). In school my grades and test scores were worse than embarrassing. I was well into my thirties before I kept a job or began to enjoy success in business.  Nearly all of what I'm known for I've done since I was fifty. And without the Net, there would hardly be any of it. For me this fact is chock full of lessons and a sense of duty about passing them along, even if I'm still learning most of them.  So I write a lot about the Net, the Web, blogging, podcasting and the rest of it. And maybe I'm wrong about a lot of it too. Hell, what does anybody know? The whole thing is still new. Everything we say about it is unavoidably provisional.  What bothers me most, I guess, is the matter of manners. I have no problem annoying gasbag CEOs, but it pains me to think I'm being cruel without knowing it to a blogger who's trying just as hard as I am — or maybe harder — to make sense of things.  So, if that's what I did with that post, my apologies to Tristan, Scott, Seth and anybody else who took offense.  I'll just add that, if ya'll want to subvert some hierarchies, including the one you see me in now, I'd like to help.  Bonus links: Dave Winer, Mitch Ratcliffe, Kent Newsome.   Shoot     Here's a photoset of shots I took Monday on a flight from Santa Barbara to Denver.  I was looking forward to getting some nice shots on the way from Boston to Los Angeles this morning. But when United upgraded me to business class (a perk of travelling too much), they gave me a window seat on the sunny side of the plane, where it's hard to get good shots. I tried to decline the upgrade, so I could keep my window seat on the shady side in coach, but they'd already given it away. Ah well. Maybe I can swap with somebody.  [Later...] Soon as I got on the plane, a flight attendant said "Are you Mr. Searls? Your seat has been changed. You now have an aisle seat." Nobody was interested in swapping, but I did have a nice conversation with the guy next to me in the window seat. He's from Russia and has lived in Boston for many years. Involved in a lot of businesses. Not much to show for it, but not a bad trade.   Rhymes with Low   I'm at Logan Airport, where all the wi-fi is for-fee, and MassPort is the provider. I couldn't get on through Boingo, MassPort's "partner", even though I can get on through Boingo at LAX. So I paid the $7.95. For that I get the partial inability to do everything, for no apparent reason other than the system's throwing up a "launching the Nomadix console" page, randomly, and stopping other services (making blog posts, using email) for (I assume) the same reason. Very annoying.  Anyway, headed home shortly. Getting out of Boston right before the snowstorm hits. Twelve inches are expected.   Might help sales   oso: If I were dictator of my own small island, it¹s not capitalism that I would get rid of, it¹s marketing.   Not funny   Brian Benz: it bugs me to refer to my fellow earthlings as "them".  Brian is in agreement with Dave on the matter. Me too. Also Andrew Sullivan. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] Wish listed   Jeneane Sessum:  The major analyst firms either need to offer a price/platform for indies and new media folks, OR new media folks need to start indie analyst gropus of their own, offering their findings at a price that’s at least sort of affordable, which is not $3K for a report.  Or even better, a wikipedia version of research and analysis compilations.  Is something out there we (Jeneane, moi, her commenters so far) don’t know?   Lose endings   Eric Raymond: Un-ending the Internet. Follow down through the comments. Interesting thread.   Offense post   In New Gatekeepers Are Still *GATEKEEPERS*, Seth Finkelstein calls my post yesterday on the matter of gatekeeping wrong and worse:  …to be told that a page sitting out on the end of the Long Tail is somehow equal to that sort of megaphone, because everybody could *in theory* read it. They won’t, and to say otherwise starts to become downright cruel.  Maybe he’s right. I don’t know.  I feel I’m in some kind of bind here.  I have this idea that the blogosphere is the one place in the world — or perhaps an entirely new world, or a part of a new world, created on the Net — where there is no need for class, for caste, for gates or keepers of anything.  To me this is a world where the only success that fully counts is in helping move good ideas along, in helping make this new world a bigger, better and more open place. And in helping others enjoy the privilege of participating in it.  I see this world as a place built on credits given, taken and passed along. I see this world as a place where it is at least possible to overcome disagreements, and to come to new agreements that would not be possible without the protocol, both technical and civil, we call the hyperlink.  I’ve always thought the most important thesis in Cluetrain was not the first, but the seventh: Hyperlinks subvert hierarchies.  What I’ve tried to say, in my posts responding to Tristan’s, Scott’s and others making the same point, is nothing more than what David Weinberger said in those three words.  I thought I was giving subversion advice in the post that so offended Seth. But maybe I was wrong. Maybe being widely perceived as a high brick in the blogosphere’s pyramid gives my words an unavoidable hauteur — even if I’m busy insisting that all the ’sphere’s pyramids are just dunes moving across wide open spaces.  I don’t know.  I do know what it is like to be on the outside, to face gates far more closed than those anybody faces in the blogosphere.  In the caste systems of my childhood and youth — athletics, academics, success with girls — I was on the Z list. In sports I was nearly always the last one chosen when teams were picked. To girls I was a bad dancer with buck teeth (one of them broken until I was seventeen). In school my grades and test scores were worse than embarrassing. I was well into my thirties before I kept a job or began to enjoy success in business.  Nearly all of what I’m known for I’ve done since I was fifty. And without the Net, there would hardly be any of it. For me this fact is chock full of lessons and a sense of duty about passing them along, even if I’m still learning most of them.  So I write a lot about the Net, the Web, blogging, podcasting and the rest of it. And maybe I’m wrong about a lot of it too. Hell, what does anybody know? The whole thing is still new. Everything we say about it is unavoidably provisional.  What bothers me most, I guess, is the matter of manners. I have no problem annoying gasbag CEOs, but it pains me to think I’m being cruel without knowing it to a blogger who’s trying just as hard as I am — or maybe harder — to make sense of things.  So, if that’s what I did with that post, my apologies to Tristan, Scott, Seth and anybody else who took offense.  I’ll just add that, if ya’ll want to subvert some hierarchies, including the one you see me in now, I’d like to help.  Bonus links: Dave Winer, Mitch Ratcliffe, Kent Newsome.   Shoot     Here’s a photoset of shots I took Monday on a flight from Santa Barbara to Denver.  I was looking forward to getting some nice shots on the way from Boston to Los Angeles this morning. But when United upgraded me to business class (a perk of travelling too much), they gave me a window seat on the sunny side of the plane, where it’s hard to get good shots. I tried to decline the upgrade, so I could keep my window seat on the shady side in coach, but they’d already given it away. Ah well. Maybe I can swap with somebody.  [Later...] Soon as I got on the plane, a flight attendant said “Are you Mr. Searls? Your seat has been changed. You now have an aisle seat.” Nobody was interested in swapping, but I did have a nice conversation with the guy next to me in the window seat. He’s from Russia and has lived in Boston for many years. Involved in a lot of businesses. Not much to show for it, but not a bad trade.   Rhymes with Low   I’m at Logan Airport, where all the wi-fi is for-fee, and MassPort is the provider. I couldn’t get on through Boingo, MassPort’s “partner”, even though I can get on through Boingo at LAX. So I paid the $7.95. For that I get the partial inability to do everything, for no apparent reason other than the system’s throwing up a “launching the Nomadix console” page, randomly, and stopping other services (making blog posts, using email) for (I assume) the same reason. Very annoying.  Anyway, headed home shortly. Getting out of Boston right before the snowstorm hits. Twelve inches are expected.   Might help sales   oso: If I were dictator of my own small island, it¹s not capitalism that I would get rid of, it¹s marketing.   Not funny   Brian Benz: it bugs me to refer to my fellow earthlings as “them”.  Brian is in agreement with Dave on the matter. Me too. Also Andrew Sullivan. [...]

]]> By: Publishing 2.0 » Bloggers Need a “Chinese Wall” http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-607 Publishing 2.0 » Bloggers Need a “Chinese Wall” Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:32:19 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-607 [...] Sure you don’t “work” for Google if you run AdSense on your site, but being defensive is not the way to appear above board. Instead of ripping Scoble to shreds (and sure, that’s fun), bloggers should be engaging in a serious conversation about conflicts of interest. [...] [...] Sure you don’t “work” for Google if you run AdSense on your site, but being defensive is not the way to appear above board. Instead of ripping Scoble to shreds (and sure, that’s fun), bloggers should be engaging in a serious conversation about conflicts of interest. [...]

]]> By: Scott Karp http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-589 Scott Karp Sat, 11 Feb 2006 02:16:16 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-589 Okay, Brian, let's call a truce. I should have responded to your email sooner (even after falling down a flight of stairs -- we all trip on occasion). As I've said before, I blog about my aspirations, not what I'm always able to achieve. But we have to keep striving. I'll quote from one of your posts: <blockquote>...some people are trying to be “blog snarky” when it’s not really who they are offline. They’re not naturally sarcastic and cynical, they’re just pretending to be. So they end up saying things online they would never say to a person’s face, thereby dragging down the level of discourse just a bit more.</blockquote> Had we met first in person, I'm sure we both would have been much nicer to each other. So when we meet again, let's be nice and have an interesting conversation. Okay, Brian, let’s call a truce. I should have responded to your email sooner (even after falling down a flight of stairs — we all trip on occasion). As I’ve said before, I blog about my aspirations, not what I’m always able to achieve. But we have to keep striving.

I’ll quote from one of your posts:

…some people are trying to be “blog snarky” when it’s not really who they are offline.

They’re not naturally sarcastic and cynical, they’re just pretending to be. So they end up saying things online they would never say to a person’s face, thereby dragging down the level of discourse just a bit more.

Had we met first in person, I’m sure we both would have been much nicer to each other. So when we meet again, let’s be nice and have an interesting conversation.

]]> By: Brian Clark http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-588 Brian Clark Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:55:51 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-588 Scott, we missed each other... my comment prior to this one came in after I read (and responded to) you email. Thanks. Scott, we missed each other… my comment prior to this one came in after I read (and responded to) you email. Thanks.

]]> By: Brian Clark http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-587 Brian Clark Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:54:20 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-587 Scott just emailed me with some information that may make me reconsider my position, although I would still ask him to consider his own words carefully (with my parenthetical annotation): Even the APPEARANCE of impropriety (or exclusivity) is to be avoided at all costs. Scott just emailed me with some information that may make me reconsider my position, although I would still ask him to consider his own words carefully (with my parenthetical annotation):

Even the APPEARANCE of impropriety (or exclusivity) is to be avoided at all costs.

]]> By: Scott Karp http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-586 Scott Karp Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:54:02 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-586 Brian, I will post here the email I just sent you: <blockquote>No, I really would have linked to it -- and I would have responded to your email -- I injured myself a couple of days ago (that do you emailed me, actually), so I've fallen behind. Do people only get 2 days before you assume they have ignored you? And yes, I personally find "heck" off-putting -- if that makes me an outlier online, then so be it. I have struggled with the whole attention thing, but I've never resorted to nastiness. That said, I have a number of online friendships that started out rocky -- life is too short to hold grudges.</blockquote> That last part was an olive branch, in case you didn' recognize it. I guess you're more interested in venting frustration than in making friends -- were you just setting me up with your email? If I was so craven as you paint me, I would have just deleted your comment -- although I don't see how anyone can gain anything from reading this exchange, other than lessons in what not to do. Brian, I will post here the email I just sent you:

No, I really would have linked to it — and I would have responded to your email — I injured myself a couple of days ago (that do you emailed me, actually), so I’ve fallen behind. Do people only get 2 days before you assume they have ignored you?

And yes, I personally find “heck” off-putting — if that makes me an outlier online, then so be it.

I have struggled with the whole attention thing, but I’ve never resorted to nastiness. That said, I have a number of online friendships that started out rocky — life is too short to hold grudges.

That last part was an olive branch, in case you didn’ recognize it. I guess you’re more interested in venting frustration than in making friends — were you just setting me up with your email?

If I was so craven as you paint me, I would have just deleted your comment — although I don’t see how anyone can gain anything from reading this exchange, other than lessons in what not to do.

]]> By: Brian Clark http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-585 Brian Clark Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:39:39 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-585 My comment is not nasty at all, unless you find the truth nasty. How is "heck" abrasive? The truth is Scott, if I didn't post this here in public, you would have never have responded to me. You simply saw no value *to you* in the interaction. It doesn't matter what you say now. You are responding to me because the medium forced you to. Seth Godin responds to emails faster than 48 hours -- you're busier? Look at your posting style. You only talk about what the A-list is talking about, so they'll lin back to you. If that doesn't work, you say ridiculous things about Google that only demonstrate at lack of a fuller understanding. It's called link baiting. We get it. My comment is not nasty at all, unless you find the truth nasty. How is “heck” abrasive? The truth is Scott, if I didn’t post this here in public, you would have never have responded to me. You simply saw no value *to you* in the interaction.

It doesn’t matter what you say now. You are responding to me because the medium forced you to. Seth Godin responds to emails faster than 48 hours — you’re busier?

Look at your posting style. You only talk about what the A-list is talking about, so they’ll lin back to you. If that doesn’t work, you say ridiculous things about Google that only demonstrate at lack of a fuller understanding.

It’s called link baiting. We get it.

]]> By: Scott Karp http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-584 Scott Karp Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:24:03 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-584 Brian, I did get your email and checked out your site -- I thought the "heck" in your What the Heck Is RSS was a little abrasive -- and I see now from your comment that it fits with a pattern. I was going to respond to your email, but I guess now I don't have to. Really, what do you gain from nastiness? The world is nasty enough. Brian, I did get your email and checked out your site — I thought the “heck” in your What the Heck Is RSS was a little abrasive — and I see now from your comment that it fits with a pattern. I was going to respond to your email, but I guess now I don’t have to. Really, what do you gain from nastiness? The world is nasty enough.

]]> By: Brian Clark http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-582 Brian Clark Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:07:06 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-582 Scott, you don't even respond to friendly emails from other bloggers (at least not me). I guess a guy who has been blogging for a mere 20 days less than you has no value in your world? My Technorati ranking isn't high enough for a three second response? You stink of hype and hypocrisy when you don't practice what you preach. Scott, you don’t even respond to friendly emails from other bloggers (at least not me). I guess a guy who has been blogging for a mere 20 days less than you has no value in your world? My Technorati ranking isn’t high enough for a three second response?

You stink of hype and hypocrisy when you don’t practice what you preach.

]]> By: The New Gatekeepers: Follow up http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-743 The New Gatekeepers: Follow up Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/#comment-743 <!--%kramer-pre%-->I was wondering about. How do we face those problems and how do we solve them? Scott Karp went even further <a class="cosmoslinks" href="http://publishing2.com/2006/02/10/blogger-defensiveness/">calling Doc's response defensive</a> and, in another post, adding: I think the term "gatekeepers" just offends bloggers' liberatarian sensibilities, but regardless, the existence of<!--%kramer-post%--> I was wondering about. How do we face those problems and how do we solve them? Scott Karp went even further calling Doc’s response defensive and, in another post, adding: I think the term “gatekeepers” just offends bloggers’ liberatarian sensibilities, but regardless, the existence of

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