Comments on: Making Sense of the 2.0 Ideological Polemic http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/ The (r)Eevolution of Media Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:23:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: David Crisp http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7829 David Crisp Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:51:52 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7829 The notion that there is no effective way to sell crappy products and services strikes me as wildly wrong. My e-mail is chock full of crappy products and services, many of them illegal and/or outright fraudulent. Who falls for such stuff? Hardly anybody. But with the cost of "advertising" close to zero, enough suckers are pulled in to, presumably, make these ventures profitable. Simply because of the cost of doing business, the mass market weeded out far more of this crap than the new media do. The notion that there is no effective way to sell crappy products and services strikes me as wildly wrong. My e-mail is chock full of crappy products and services, many of them illegal and/or outright fraudulent.

Who falls for such stuff? Hardly anybody. But with the cost of “advertising” close to zero, enough suckers are pulled in to, presumably, make these ventures profitable. Simply because of the cost of doing business, the mass market weeded out far more of this crap than the new media do.

]]> By: Successful Blog - Scott Karp deserves your attenion. http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7658 Successful Blog - Scott Karp deserves your attenion. Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:41:09 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7658 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] [...]

]]> By: Scott Karp http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7463 Scott Karp Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:00:07 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7463 Charles, I think understand the difference between hype and communication -- what's your point exactly? Bohsnews, It is more accurate to say that mass media/marketing are certainly not dead yet, but are in steady decline -- I disagree that there is anything "persistent" about the current realities. Perhaps you need to check your vision. As to correlation between buzzwords and hype, I suppose there is one, and you're never going to be hype, but the mere use of buzzwords doesn't prove anything. And without generalization, it's hard to talk about trends. "Anit-ismism" -- interesting coinage. Charles,
I think understand the difference between hype and communication — what’s your point exactly?

Bohsnews,
It is more accurate to say that mass media/marketing are certainly not dead yet, but are in steady decline — I disagree that there is anything “persistent” about the current realities. Perhaps you need to check your vision.

As to correlation between buzzwords and hype, I suppose there is one, and you’re never going to be hype, but the mere use of buzzwords doesn’t prove anything. And without generalization, it’s hard to talk about trends.

“Anit-ismism” — interesting coinage.

]]> By: Bohsnews http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7457 Bohsnews Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:11:31 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7457 Stirring stuff. But there's a world of difference between wishing that mass media/marketing were dead, and that actually being the case,. What you are saying is, far from being ideology-free, so rooted in ideology that it has blinded you to the persistent realities of media production and consumption. We need to take much more care with the hype filter whenever we write sentences that include the words 'platform', 'individuals' and 'content'. Otherwise, you end up with simplistic anti-ismism. Stirring stuff.
But there’s a world of difference between wishing that mass media/marketing were dead, and that actually being the case,. What you are saying is, far from being ideology-free, so rooted in ideology that it has blinded you to the persistent realities of media production and consumption.
We need to take much more care with the hype filter whenever we write sentences that include the words ‘platform’, ‘individuals’ and ‘content’. Otherwise, you end up with simplistic anti-ismism.

]]> By: Old Grouch http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7403 Old Grouch Tue, 18 Jul 2006 03:00:55 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7403 Seth: "How much can a company cut corners before that process shifts from a profitable strategy to an unprofitable strategy?" Answering questions like that is one reason corporate CEOs are paid mega$s. Another reason is explaining their answer to the stockholders. (The answers are: You don't know until you try, and the shift point isn't static. But if you pay attention to your business, your customers, and your market, hopefully you won't make too many mistakes, and you'll recover quickly from the ones you DO make!) Seth: “How much can a company cut corners before that process shifts from a profitable strategy to an unprofitable strategy?”

Answering questions like that is one reason corporate CEOs are paid mega$s. Another reason is explaining their answer to the stockholders.

(The answers are: You don’t know until you try, and the shift point isn’t static. But if you pay attention to your business, your customers, and your market, hopefully you won’t make too many mistakes, and you’ll recover quickly from the ones you DO make!)

]]> By: Charles http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7401 Charles Tue, 18 Jul 2006 02:14:54 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7401 One more thing - Hype comes from Hyperbole and is a close neighbor of hyp-ocrisy. Communication comes from communion and is a close neighbor of community. One builds relationships that are valued by humans. The other does not. <strong>Learn the difference.</strong> One more thing -

Hype comes from Hyperbole and is a close neighbor of hyp-ocrisy.

Communication comes from communion and is a close neighbor of community.

One builds relationships that are valued by humans. The other does not.

Learn the difference.

]]> By: Aneil Weber http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7398 Aneil Weber Tue, 18 Jul 2006 01:09:04 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7398 Scott, I think that this is a great breakdown on one aspect of how business is changing these days in response to the evolution of mass media. The new media forms are not only making an even playing field between consumers and businesses, they are also causing the consumer to have higher standards and raising the bar for companies. One of the implications of this is that it makes more and more room for companies to actually solve pains that were left untouched before because the volume wasn't high enough on their incompetency. Scott,

I think that this is a great breakdown on one aspect of how business is changing these days in response to the evolution of mass media. The new media forms are not only making an even playing field between consumers and businesses, they are also causing the consumer to have higher standards and raising the bar for companies. One of the implications of this is that it makes more and more room for companies to actually solve pains that were left untouched before because the volume wasn’t high enough on their incompetency.

]]> By: Liz Strauss http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7373 Liz Strauss Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:07:26 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7373 It doesn't take many words to say what needs saying. You said it all and I agree completely. It doesn’t take many words to say what needs saying. You said it all and I agree completely.

]]> By: Seth Finkelstein http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7370 Seth Finkelstein Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:35:21 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7370 Unfortunately, that actually sidesteps the core of the issue: How much can a company cut corners before that process shifts from a profitable strategy to an unprofitable strategy? Repeating, <em>loudly</em>, and then repeating, <strong>LOUDLY</strong>, that there's a point of diminishing returns, and we're now at the point, does not in fact make it true. Unfortunately, that actually sidesteps the core of the issue: How much can a company cut corners before that process shifts from a profitable strategy to an unprofitable strategy?

Repeating, loudly, and then repeating, LOUDLY, that there’s a point of diminishing returns, and we’re now at the point, does not in fact make it true.

]]> By: BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The age of customerism and producerism http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7366 BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The age of customerism and producerism Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:02:15 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7366 [...] : LATER: Scott Karp does an excellent job cutting through the crap and clouds to get to the point: eff Jarvis and Amanda Chapel (aka Strumpette) are going at it over the Dell issue and in the process are stirring up such a heavy cloud of ideology that it’s hard to get your bearings. I thought it was worth trying to boil it down to some simpler, less ideologically-colored observations and lessons: [...] [...] : LATER: Scott Karp does an excellent job cutting through the crap and clouds to get to the point: eff Jarvis and Amanda Chapel (aka Strumpette) are going at it over the Dell issue and in the process are stirring up such a heavy cloud of ideology that it’s hard to get your bearings. I thought it was worth trying to boil it down to some simpler, less ideologically-colored observations and lessons: [...]

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-7365 Jeff Jarvis Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:59:17 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-7365 Bravo, Scott, brilliantly done. Bravo, Scott, brilliantly done.

]]> By: Mashalist http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-9100 Mashalist Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-9100 <!--%kramer-pre%-->observations and lessons<!--%kramer-post%--> observations and lessons

]]> By: Faneuil Media http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/comment-page-1/#comment-32746 Faneuil Media Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://publishing2.com/2006/07/17/making-sense-of-the-20-ideological-polemic/#comment-32746 <!--%kramer-pre%--> Earlier this week Scott Karp offered the following excellent “observations and lessons”: Companies used to be able to get away with making crappy products and offering crappy services because they were able to mass market people into submission and because consumers didn’t have a way to make their unhappiness widely known.<!--%kramer-post%--> Earlier this week Scott Karp offered the following excellent “observations and lessons”: Companies used to be able to get away with making crappy products and offering crappy services because they were able to mass market people into submission and because consumers didn’t have a way to make their unhappiness widely known.

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