July 19th, 2006
Netscape Could Beat Digg By Focusing on Average People
It has been well documented that Netscape users don’t like the new Digg-like Netscape. Jason Calacanis’ solution — hire away Digg’s power users, who drive 90% of Digg’s value. But even if these power users are for sale (an interesting question), it still wouldn’t help Netscape woo back its original user base of average people.
To understand why, it’s helpful to look at the top headlines in Digg’s new World & Business category:
Why the Left Is Furious at Lieberman
Some time after having lunch in Iraq with the junior senator from Connecticut, Time magazine Baghdad bureau chief Michael Ware told an interviewer, “Either Sen. Lieberman is so divorced from reality that he’s completely lost the plot, or he knows he’s spinning a line.”
Bush May End His NAACP Boycott
President Bush is apparently ready to end his boycott of the NAACP, the oldest civil rights organization in the United States, with a possible speech Thursday.
City vehicle caught on camera at strip club
“When we dish over our hard earned money for local taxes, we expect the city to use the money wisely. Sometimes that means out of town trips and conferences. But what about driving a city vehicle to a strip club?”
Senate passes Stem Cell Bill, but not by enough for Veto override
“The bill passed 63-37, four votes short of the two-thirds majority that would be needed to override Bush’s veto. The president left little doubt he would reject the bill despite late appeals on its behalf from fellow Republicans Nancy Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger.”
Seattle SuperSonics sold, moving to Oklahoma City?
Starbucks Coffee Chairman and Sonics Majority Owner Howard Schultz has apparently sold the NBA’s Seattle Supersonics to a group from Oklahoma City adding fuel to the fire that the team will move there. The New Orleans Hornets played many of its games in Oklahoma City this past year due to damage from Hurricane Katrina.
Why Bush should swear more.
“According to some, the single dirty word is more proof that Bush is a dumb cowboy, but Bush’s unguarded remarks actually make the opposite case. They show that he understands the awkward steps of diplomacy and that, while he may be frustrated, he’s remarkably cool and multilateral for the supposed simple fellow from Midland.”
Israel claims Iran link to crisis
Hezbollah’s capture of two Israeli soldiers last week was timed to divert attention from Tehran’s nuclear programme, the Israeli PM has claimed.
‘I went on crime spree to avoid Iraq’
A member of the Wyoming Army National Guard who was arrested in early June after a highway chase near Hardin told investigators he went on a five-day crime spree in Montana and Wyoming to avoid deployment to Iraq.
United States to Israel: you have one more week to blast Hizbullah
“The US is giving Israel a window of a week to inflict maximum damage on Hizbullah before weighing in behind international calls for a ceasefire in Lebanon, according to British, European and Israeli sources.”
World jump day is tomorrow, don’t forget to jump for our planet.
I’m sure you have already hard about this action that could change the earth orbit for good… Well, it’s tomorrow (20 July 2006) at 11:39:13 GMT, so, let’s jump !
Hezbollah’s Dangerous Ball Bearings
Human Rights Watch: Some of the Kutyusha rockets fired into Haifa Sunday and Monday contained hundreds of metal ball bearings that are of limited use against military targets but “cause great harm to civilians and civilian property. The ball bearings lodge in the body and cause serious harm.” It does not bode well for a quick resolution.
Oops, Mom Googled Me
My last e-mail from her was something like this: “I googled you and found ‘How to Survive the Holidays With Your Republican Parents.’ Why didn’t you share that one?” Why indeed?
Interview Tips From An Experienced Recruiter
Although your technical abilities are most important, interviewers don ’t only consider your qualifications and on job experience. See the “In the Interview” section near the bottom for some tips to help you stay sharp.
I Installed Steve Jobs’ Trampoline
An intrepid trampoline installer tells the tale of installing a trampoline for Steve Jobs’ daughter. He even took a few test jumps! (This is a couple of years old but doesn’t look like it’s hit digg before and this is the first I’ve heard of it)
With Google Earth, defense analysts spot North Korea missile sites
“Colin, an intern here, was poking around North Korea on Google Earth and discovered that defense analysts — active duty and retired — are identifying missile installations and sub bases flagged by civilians. From a retired Army satellite analyst…”
For comparison, here are Netscape’s top stories from its “News” category:
Iran’s Hezbollah ready to attack US interests
“We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader’s green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three … we welcome…
Images from Lebanon
Browse galleries of captioned photos from the ground in Lebanon. Warning: some of these images are graphic…
In Testimony, Gonzales Says Bush Blocked Inquiry
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Tuesday that President Bush personally blocked Justice Department lawyers from pursuing an internal…
Thanking Jesus in Court Lands Man in Jail
Junior Stowers raised his hands and exclaimed, “Thank you, Jesus!” in court last month when he was acquitted by a jury of abusing his…
US charging Americans for evacuation from Beirut?
TIME’s Andrew Sullivan has posted an email from a reader trying to get out of Lebanon. “Most other governments evacuating people here…
U.S. Temperature Set at ‘BROIL’
No relief in site.…
Are You Ready for Your North American Union ID Card?
Now it can be revealed that plans for the North American Union include a tri-national “North American Union†ID card.…
Java tsunami death toll increases
At least 300 are reported dead, 140 missing, 450 injured and an estimated 52,700 displaced on Indonesia’s island of Java. Early warning…
Blair, Annan Call for Troops in Israel
British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called Monday for the deployment of international forces to…
6000 Civilians Killed In Iraq In Just The Last Two Months
Bringing the total for the year to around 14,000…
Will Germany Declare War On Iran?
With the “Hitler-like” rhetoric coming from Iran’s president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his denial of the Jewish holocaust seems to have… (1 day and 3 hours ago)
Skyguard High-Energy Laser System
Northrop Grumman Corporation formally proposed a ground-based, high-energy laser system, Skyguard, as part of a layered airport defense…
Space Shuttle to Land At 9:14 AM this Morning
All Clear for landing is given…
Anderson Cooper blogging from Haifa
“I’ve never blogged before, so forgive me if this rambles. But as we rushed off to feed tape and throw the rest of our gear in the…
If Digg or Netscape has any hope of truly rivaling the New York Times or other “traditional” daily news outlets, they need to help AVERAGE PEOPLE find out what’s going on in the world that is important for them to know about.
Of course, the definition of what’s “important” to know is exactly what’s at issue here. New York Times editors have one view. Digg power users have another view.
But let’s get real. What’s more important? What the U.S. is doing about the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict or Steve Job’s trampoline? (No doubt somebody will trot out a tired old relativist argument.)
It’s very notable that Digg’s front page for World & Business gets it half right, touching on most of the important stories of the day, in few cases with interesting angles, such as the soldier who went on a crime spree to avoid Iraq deployment, which shows just how acute that situation is.
Maybe it will turn out that people like (or need) a little trampoline news with their Israel/Hezbollah news. I think the problem with Digg headlines is their sense of randomness and capriciousness. You can disagree with New York Times’ editorial judgment, but at least it’s fairly consistent.
If Netscape really wants to beat Digg, it should leverage the advantage it already appears to have — by comparison, Netscape isn’t littered with as many “weird” stories. It’s already acting more like a news site that the average person could more easily transition to.
Of course, the real silliness of this is that Diggs power users are acting like traditional editors — it’s really not a “community” deciding what’s news. It’s just different editorial judgment — and that difference in judgment and its appeal to average people is worth discussing.
But let’s stop pretending this is about a “social media” revolution.
UPDATE
Interestingly, and somewhat ironically, this post has been Dugg (Digged?) — hello, Digg users.
Based on my traffic stats, nobody should question that Digg is indeed a force of nature, not to be taken lightly.
The comments on the Digg post are very interesting and worth reading.
Many display the childish ethos of some Digg users:
This asshat has been taking swipes at Digg for some time. Karp’s diatribe is nothing but weak & transparent envy.
Other negative comments are quite insightful and useful:
The “weird” stories that Digg features may not have a thing to do with the state of the world, but they’re interesting. If I just wanted world/breaking news, then I would have no reason to visit Digg. Reuters, AP, etc. cover that stuff. The “average” people already are bombarded by news outlets. I’m actually beginning to see Digg as a kind of refuge where I can hunker down and get my tech news, interesting tidbits, and maybe some *key* reports on the state of the world.
There are even a few “contrarians” in the mix:
Is any criticism of Digg ever, ever warranted? I ask seriously, because you guys get very angry and quickly bury negative comments that are actually about Digg. Will geek groupthink sink Digg?
For example, here are some real criticisms that aren’t hateful, aren’t FUD, and are constructive, I think:
1.) We don’t need a front page story every time Eric Schmidt goes to the bathroom.
2.) Ditto with Steve Jobs
3.) Reading Digg, one would assume that Apple has 85% market share in PCs and that the iPod was the only entertainment option available to humankind. (I own a Mac AND an iPod, and I LOVE them)
4.) The Google thing again. I don’t get the adulation. Seriously.
These two comments are particularly telling:
i’ll always be a digg fan, this is the only site i can on and read news for hours and hours and not be wondering why i’m reading instead of playing video games
Good, I don’t want Netscape’s users using Digg. Keep the n00bs off this site!
All and all, it’s a microcosm of Digg at its best and worst.
Topics: Digg | Publishing 2.0
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[IMG] Netscape Could Beat Digg By Focusing on Average People
[…] Update: Scott Karp has just written a wildly sane piece explaining why Diggers are the wrong people for Jason to pay. Related Posts […]
Maybe it will turn out that people like (or need) a little trampoline news with their Israel/Hezbollah news
No “maybe” about it Scott - enough news sources publish an occasional list of their most popular stories to make it obvious what sort of news people read when given a completely free choice.
See here the Seattle Times admitting that “articles on horse sex are the most widely read material this paper has published in its 109-year history”, or here Slate pointing out that “during 2005, Slate covered the war in Iraq, Hurricane Katrina, and the future of the Supreme Court, but our most popular stories were, for the most part, about dogs, beer, celebrities, and naked ladies. Below you’ll find a list of the 10 pieces that attracted the most readers this year”.
See here for a summary by the American Journalism Review of the tabloidisation-by-democracy of American news sources, or here for my own.
What news is “better” or “important” isn’t really the issue. That’s the question newspaper readers were paying editors and journalists to address for them in the pre-digital media1.0 world. News providers are becoming increasingly adept at delivering consumers the news they actually want rather than the news editors think they should have - this is one of the consequences of Jay Rosen’s concept of “the people formerly known as the audience“.
It seems a lot of the people who used to be the audience want their trampoline news instead of their Israel/Hezbollah news. Now, we might join Douglas C Clifton, editor of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, for deploring that situation. He said of people’s ability to pick and choose the news they want that “I think that’s a terrible thing. It’s not good for a democratic, pluralistic society. It’s not good for the business.” But it’s not a genie that’s going back in the bottle any time soon.
Seamus,
Undoubtedly you’re right that many people will choose cake over broccoli — and many people do have a “terrible” diet intellectually. But I think we need to give people more credit regarding their desire to “eat” right.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=6m&size=large&compare_sites=digg.com,%20REDDIT.com,%20flickr.com,newsvine.com&y=r&url=netscape.com
He’s panicking because he sees his numbers going south. It’s probably not his fault but he’ll be left hold the bag if he doesn’t try and do something.
[…] Karp says Digg.com isn’t a wisdom of crowds social media phenomenon at all: Diggs power users are acting like traditional editors — it’s really not a “community” deciding what’s news. It’s just different editorial judgment — and that difference in judgment and its appeal to average people is worth discussing. […]
I think the value in important stories is far higher then their page counts. You don’t get to be in the position of those media companies without first having established credibility. Yes, horse sex drove a ton of page views, but the Seattle paper is in business and makes money because they report on news of importance to Seattleites everyday.
Did you see Arrington’s post today? He says the new Netscape.com is a sinking titanic, and a soul-less reproduction of “one of the most interesting cultural experiments occuring on the web right now [Digg.com]”. So who’s right - Scott with “Digg’s no social media revolution” or Michael?
[…] Rob Hyndman, Richard MacManus, Paul Colligan and Scott Karp also cover this meme. […]
It looks like netscape.com might have lost a lot of traffic because it didn’t handle the transition for my.netscape.com users very well. Afterward, they added a big notice: “attention netscape users”.. what the heck happened? type of message. Clearly they got a lot of feedback from people who obviously don’t like change otherwise they wouldn’t still be using my netscape and netscape mail!
I think it’s to be expected that there will be a drop in traffic on such a major change, a re-trenching as it finds a solid user base, followed by steady growth if it’s a good product. This happens in any news business. You launch a new cable news show, switch anchors, whatever. At first there’s interest cause it’s new.. then you lose some previous folks as they realize they don’t like it or just don’t want change. but if it’s good, and the network sticks with it, it finds an audience.
Based on your analysis, Scott, one of the smart things Calcanis appears to have done is have the top stories picked by editors. It gives it a consistency more in line with traditional news.
So is that a social media revolution? You’re right, probably not.
[…] Blog community response: “Netscape has a massively larger audience than Digg, but has absolutey failed to impact Digg growth at all. AOL placed a big bet on this product, and I imagine they want to see fast results. They aren’t getting those results. Jason’s post is a sign of desperation more than anything.” –TechCrunch “Will he be able to cripple his competitors by luring their most religious users and contributors away for $12,000 per year? I doubt it. But if a price war was to break out over the elite of the Web 2.0 community, who’s got deeper pockets than Calacanis?” –Tech Effect “It has been well documented that Netscape users don’t like the new Digg-like Netscape. Jason Calacanis’ solution–hire away Digg’s power users, who drive 90% of Digg’s value. But even if these power users are for sale (an interesting question), it still wouldn’t help Netscape woo back its original user base of average people.” –Publishing 2.0 […]
In my opinion the issues with news aggregators have little to do with “top stories.” Just as one man’s ceiling is another man’s floor so too one news reader’s top story is another reader’s cause for boredom. Paying to draw away Digg’s power users strikes me as just plain silly. What advantage are they going to bring to Netscape’s service other than making it more Digg-like? Or perhaps Jason Calacanis’s goal was simply to generate publicity by doing something outrageous. I suspect the latter is more likely.
When someone finally figures out how to take demographic and behavioral information on an individual, match that up with their history and the history of others with a similar profile regarding what news stories they individually deem to be important and unimportant, and from that creates a news service customized for each individual, THAT, I think, will finally be a real revolution in social media. That kind of a customized service would appeal to both the average, the above average and everything below and in between. The trick, of course, is getting there.
Joseph, at first blush I’m inclined to agree, but when you think about it, what exactly is the difference between matching up my interests and those of people like me from Digg and its original core technology audience?
Scott, on the surface, I would say there is not much difference. I am just guessing here, but I would say you probably have much in common with Digg’s core technology audience. But I would also suggest that you are not “average.”
As you replied to an earlier post, “some people will choose cake over broccoli”. Some want both and the proportions will differ depending on who they are. The real revolution, I think, in social media (at least in the news part of it) will come when news aggregators can successfully do for us what we do (or used to do before the internet) every day when we read a newspaper or magazine….we skim through it looking for the things that are of greatest interest to US as individuals. We perform our own “editorial judgment” on the stories in those publications. Being able to serve up news stories to readers based on their customized profiles would go a long way towards doing just that. It would not likely be as good as doing it yourself, but it would probably be a lot better than having to sift through all the tons of information that there is on the internet every day to find what is most interesting to each individual person.
What I suppose I am describing is a kind of pandora.com for news. I think if it works for music there is a good chance that, with the right data and research, it can also work for news. And that will be the application that will likely blow both Digg and Netscape out of the water.
[…] It was of today that I saw this article about how the new Netscape web site could trump Digg. The article is a raiser of many points of contemplation. But my views are not of an agreement. […]
[…] “Netscape Could Beat Digg By Focusing on Average People” […]
Concerning the NYT, this recent posting might be interesting/funny:
http://tom.ma/p/popurls-catches-ny-times-awesome-gift-party
FromDigg — or should I say P9 — or whoever you are,
Why did you see fit to call me an “asshat” over at Digg but not here? Is it easier to be rude and obnoxious amongst your frat boys? But then it’s easy to call people names hiding behind anonymity, isn’t it? And you question my integrity?
As to your point about “hybrid mix of story genres that are all rolled up into a major category,” I stated clearly that the headlines I cited came from Digg’s “World & Business” section, and I provided a link. What more did you want? Shouldn’t the category make sense to people on the face of it without a detailed explanation of how it is actually a roll up of other categories?
Perhaps the expectations for such a “rolled up” category is one of the key issues here.
[…] Digg for "regular people". errr Netscape 5.7 […]
To compare Digg to the New York times (or any other “traditional media”) is to miss the point completely. I don’t go to the barber to get my teeth cleaned. But, if I trust my barber and he knows of a good dentist, I’ll go to that dentist. You digg?
Hmm, you do seem slightly biased.
Gabe,
Then why create a category like “World & Business” that sounds an awful lot like what the New York Times does? The issue here is not about what Digg OUGHT to be — in that instance, you (and the mob at Digg) are absolutely right that Digg serves a very different and indeed useful purpose. The issue here is what Digg WANTS to be — I guess that’s a question for Kevin Rose.
Dave,
Of course I’m slightly biased. This blog represents my personal views, which many people choose to disagree with. That’s what makes it interesting.
Netscape isn�t littered with as many �weird� stories. It�s already acting more like a news site that the average person could more easily transition to.” Scott Karp says “Steve Job�s trampoline” story is weird. > read more | digg story
I am surprised you didn`t evaluate the importance of the fact that the readers vote for popular stories on social sites like Digg, and now Netscape. This is more significant in determining what stories make the front page than editors for Digg-although some Digg submitters have a good sense of what Digg users enjoy and so seem like editors, they are not editors as at the end of the day they don`t decide what makes the front page.
This is likely to work better on niche-interest sites than general news.
I have to say that there is a very real place for edited news and I don`t want the Digg approach to be applied everywhere. As far as Netscape goes though, with an audience who read it because they don`t know how to change their browser defaults, I prefer to see social editing, as however moronic a crowd can be, it can`t be corrupted like traditional editors can. As the users of Netscape are such because they can`t excercise their own choice, the freedom of social bookmarking over spoon-feeding editiors might be good for them, asshat
â?? by comparison, Netscape isnâ??t littered with as many â??weirdâ?? stories. Itâ??s already acting more like a news site that the average person could more easily transition to.†Scott Karp says “Steve Jobâ??s trampoline†story is weird. read more | digg story
[…] Scott Karp of Publishing 2.0 claims that Netscape would be able to beat Digg by focusing on average people. His major point is that Digg has a lot of weird stories on it, rather than the traditional news that the average person wants to read about. Personally, I think that the eccentric content on Digg is what makes it so popular. You have the users deciding what they’re interested in instead of some editors who are paid to report whatever they believe the masses will be interested in. He talks around this by claiming that Digg’s power users end up controlling what goes on the site, which is true. However, the key difference between this system and editor driven content is simply that any Digg user could become one of the power users if he or she wants by simply spending some time digging stories in the queue that they like or submitting new stories to the site. This simply is not the case with traditional media, you’re stuck with whatever is deemed to increase the ratings, and the media is targetted toward the lowest common denominator. In conclusion, I’d have to say that Digg is pretty safe where it is, and if the new user-driven Netscape ever does take off, it will probably end up exactly like Digg, full of weird, entertaining content, because that’s what people enjoy reading. Publishing 2.0 » Netscape Could Beat Digg By Focusing on Average People […]
Calacanis’ solution  hire away Digg’s power users, who drive 90% of Digg’s value. But even if these power users are for sale (an interesting question), it still wouldn’t help Netscape woo back its original user base of average people. Source: ______Kacie’s story: HONG KONG, July 16  Movie and song copiers beware: use an Internet discussion site in Hong Kong to violate copyrights and you may be turned in to law enforcement authorities by an 11-year-old Boy Scout.
I think sharing revenue is a good idea and its an awsome way to get original quality content.
But… I think a formula has to be defined and the percentage decided by the number of readers attracted by the authot combind with the number of comments and wether or not the readers/commentors are registered users or anonymous.
Im actually thinking about this for mysite:newfoundnews
Netscape isnâ��t littered with as many â��weirdâ�� stories. Itâ��s already acting more like a news site that the average person could more easily transition to.†Scott Karp says “Steve Jobâ��s trampoline†story is weird. read more | digg story Posted in Gadgets | No Comments »
“Then why create a category like “World & Business†that sounds an awful lot like what the New York Times does?”
In my opinion that is the point of Digg. If people Digg articles about tree sloths then a category about tree sloths should be created. I’ll never visit that category of course. A tree sloth killed my father slowly over a two week period. But my point is made.
I think a secondary focus of traditional media should be trying to get dugg. It worked for you. I never heard of you until you got digged. None the less now I know your work isn’t completely unpleasant to read and I will be returning.
New topic: Dugg vs. Digged…seriously it’s keeping me up at nights. Maybe one of you writer gooders can spell it out for me.
[…] Jason Calacanis wants to buy the top posters at Digg, Reddit and Newsvine and get them to work for the new Digg-style Netscape instead. Nick “Web 2.0 is techno-utopian socialism” Carr says this is a smart move that reveals how the Web 2.0 economy is exactly like the old economy. Mike Arrington says it’s a sign of desperation, and Scott Karp says Jason should focus on average people instead. I think Mike has a point — the best communities grow organically. That can’t be bought. […]
and get them to work for the new Digg-style Netscape instead. Nick Carr says this is a smart move that reveals how the Web 2.0 economy is exactly like the old economy. TechCrunch says it’s a sign of desperation and Scott Karp says Jason should focus on average people instead. I think Mike has a point — the best communities grow organically. That can’t be bought. — Mark Cuban, the world’s most interesting (or at least transparent) CEO, has a fascinating post about the movie business, and how he is looking for solutions
(5 days ago)Publishing 2.0: “Netscape Could Beat Digg By Focusing on Average People” (5 days ago)
With all this hullabaloo about how neat and nifty web 2.0 technologies need to be made more mainstream, useful and practical technologies can often be forgotten. One of the things out there that I believe is a core part of web 2.0 is syndicated content, known variously as
[…] (via publishing2.com) – “If Netscape really wants to beat Digg, it should leverage the advantage it already appears to have — by comparison, Netscape isn’t littered with as many “weird†stories. It’s already acting more like a news site that the average person could more easily transition to.” (67 days ago) […]