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	<title>Comments on: The Poor State Of Online Display Advertising Relevancy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/</link>
	<description>The (r)Eevolution of Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:58:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: gabz80</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-687318</link>
		<dc:creator>gabz80</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-687318</guid>
		<description>hi guys, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;how would define a relevant ad for you?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;thanks, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;gaby</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi guys, </p>
<p>how would define a relevant ad for you?</p>
<p>thanks, </p>
<p>gaby</p>
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		<title>By: Improving Online Display Ad Relevancy: Interview With TACODA's Larry Allen &#187; Publishing 2.0</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-167331</link>
		<dc:creator>Improving Online Display Ad Relevancy: Interview With TACODA's Larry Allen &#187; Publishing 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-167331</guid>
		<description>[...] up on my post about the poor state of online ad relevancy, I&#8217;ve been digging deeper with some of the companies that are working to improve that state, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] up on my post about the poor state of online ad relevancy, I&#8217;ve been digging deeper with some of the companies that are working to improve that state, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bernard lunn</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-164416</link>
		<dc:creator>bernard lunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-164416</guid>
		<description>Well I got Hoodia diet patch. NYT does not know my age so its not guessing BabyBoomerBelly.
All this guessing based on click-stream, age, zip seems to be a game of diminishing returns. By the time the media firm figures out who you are - by (unknown to readers) amassing tons of data and slicing it through increasingly sophisticated software - readers will get spooked by the results. 
Search does reveal intention and that can be monetized and nobody gets pissed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I got Hoodia diet patch. NYT does not know my age so its not guessing BabyBoomerBelly.<br />
All this guessing based on click-stream, age, zip seems to be a game of diminishing returns. By the time the media firm figures out who you are &#8211; by (unknown to readers) amassing tons of data and slicing it through increasingly sophisticated software &#8211; readers will get spooked by the results.<br />
Search does reveal intention and that can be monetized and nobody gets pissed.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Karp</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-164377</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Karp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-164377</guid>
		<description>Bennett,

I mistakenly attributed this to BT after seeing the Tacoda domain in my status bar, which turned out to be audience data collection not ad serving on the page. I corrected that in an update to the post.

Lifting it above the level of who is responsible, it seems unbelievable at this point for a site like NYTimes.com to be serving up these kinds of ads -- I&#039;m a (more or less) desirable advertising target in a high-end context. Why should the NYTimes.com be reduced to serving junk? I realize that &quot;junk&quot; pays more than house ads, but as a user, I have higher expectations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bennett,</p>
<p>I mistakenly attributed this to BT after seeing the Tacoda domain in my status bar, which turned out to be audience data collection not ad serving on the page. I corrected that in an update to the post.</p>
<p>Lifting it above the level of who is responsible, it seems unbelievable at this point for a site like NYTimes.com to be serving up these kinds of ads &#8212; I&#8217;m a (more or less) desirable advertising target in a high-end context. Why should the NYTimes.com be reduced to serving junk? I realize that &#8220;junk&#8221; pays more than house ads, but as a user, I have higher expectations.</p>
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		<title>By: Bennett Zucker</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-164349</link>
		<dc:creator>Bennett Zucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-164349</guid>
		<description>Scott, The technology is far from perfect, but by condemning behavioral targeting in this specific case you are perhaps painting the canvas with too broad a brushstroke. More likely it&#039;s a combination of an even less perfect ad server deciding to hand off an impression to a network that hands it off to another and another, ad nauseam.  Your geo data is in your user registration profile, and not necessarily in your behavioral profile. As you frequently and eloquently point out, there is much room for improvement in the entire online ad ecosystem. While I am biased (3 years at Tacoda prior to working with multiple BT providers on the Right Media Exchange), I believe - and have seen numerous times - that this form of targeting can greatly enhance relevance. Let&#039;s not throw the baby out with the bath water ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, The technology is far from perfect, but by condemning behavioral targeting in this specific case you are perhaps painting the canvas with too broad a brushstroke. More likely it&#8217;s a combination of an even less perfect ad server deciding to hand off an impression to a network that hands it off to another and another, ad nauseam.  Your geo data is in your user registration profile, and not necessarily in your behavioral profile. As you frequently and eloquently point out, there is much room for improvement in the entire online ad ecosystem. While I am biased (3 years at Tacoda prior to working with multiple BT providers on the Right Media Exchange), I believe &#8211; and have seen numerous times &#8211; that this form of targeting can greatly enhance relevance. Let&#8217;s not throw the baby out with the bath water &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Alistair Brown</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-164187</link>
		<dc:creator>Alistair Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-164187</guid>
		<description>The &quot;Leesburg&quot; dating ad looks to be geo-targeted but will not be targeted on any &quot;behavioural&quot; activity.  They are reckoning that if they at least target it geographically they have a better chance of getting a response - even if it goes to everyone not just the 20-30% who are singles.  I agree this is still a pretty poor job - c. 70-80% wastage. 

As other have stated - the rest in this series of ads looks to be &quot;distressed&quot; or &quot;remnant&quot; ads.  This could come from the lower-CPM end of the  networks such but it looks to be pretty low-grade stuff. 

As you point out - it is striking that no one that I know of in the Ad Management / Ad Serving / Ad Network space has successfully hooked up ad serving technology to user data held by the publishers/site owners.  I guess this come next.  Given the lack of usability/functionality with most ad management software this is hardly surprising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Leesburg&#8221; dating ad looks to be geo-targeted but will not be targeted on any &#8220;behavioural&#8221; activity.  They are reckoning that if they at least target it geographically they have a better chance of getting a response &#8211; even if it goes to everyone not just the 20-30% who are singles.  I agree this is still a pretty poor job &#8211; c. 70-80% wastage. </p>
<p>As other have stated &#8211; the rest in this series of ads looks to be &#8220;distressed&#8221; or &#8220;remnant&#8221; ads.  This could come from the lower-CPM end of the  networks such but it looks to be pretty low-grade stuff. </p>
<p>As you point out &#8211; it is striking that no one that I know of in the Ad Management / Ad Serving / Ad Network space has successfully hooked up ad serving technology to user data held by the publishers/site owners.  I guess this come next.  Given the lack of usability/functionality with most ad management software this is hardly surprising.</p>
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		<title>By: Display Ads and Relevancy at Matchpoint Weblog</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-164106</link>
		<dc:creator>Display Ads and Relevancy at Matchpoint Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-164106</guid>
		<description>[...] Scott Karp has an interesting post today on the Publishing 2.0 blog about the state of relevancy (or lack there of) when it comes to display advertising. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Scott Karp has an interesting post today on the Publishing 2.0 blog about the state of relevancy (or lack there of) when it comes to display advertising. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-163734</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-163734</guid>
		<description>Contextual targeting, geo-targeting, behaviorial targeting... s0 many people think it&#039;s &quot;the next best thing,&quot; but as it backfires more and more sites could lose visitors and ad dollars. Publishers want this technology because CPMs, CPWhatevers can be increased. 

http://www.businesscommonsense.com/story/story.bsp?sid=56176&amp;var=story</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contextual targeting, geo-targeting, behaviorial targeting&#8230; s0 many people think it&#8217;s &#8220;the next best thing,&#8221; but as it backfires more and more sites could lose visitors and ad dollars. Publishers want this technology because CPMs, CPWhatevers can be increased. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.businesscommonsense.com/story/story.bsp?sid=56176&amp;var=story" rel="nofollow">http://www.businesscommonsense.com/story/story.bsp?sid=56176&amp;var=story</a></p>
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		<title>By: Drew Robertson</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-163715</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew Robertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-163715</guid>
		<description>In the Google model, advertising follows editorial.  If I&#039;m searching for &quot;lawn fertilizer&quot; or reading a gardening site, I&#039;ll probably get a simple but fairly relevant text ad from Adwords or Adsense.   Most ads are unviewed, uninteresting and unclicked.  But the clicks add up to +$10B for Google.

Large media sites can&#039;t live on the the CPMs this haphazard model produces.  The banner ads on most content sites are uniformily uninteresting, irrelevant  or worse, not there.  I popped over to CNET.  Found an article on &quot;auto tech&quot;.  No ads the page.  This would have been a perfect place for BMW or Sirius or LoJack to place a banner.  Instead nothing.

The solution is for CNET to have a preexisting relationship with BMW et. al  to allow them to place their ad next to a story when deemed appropriate by the ad salesman/engineer.  Compensation would be based on CTR not CPM.

Naturally if this model is embraced by the NYTs and CNETs of the world, we&#039;ll see more advertising-friendly editorial.  Well duh.  If subscription revenues disappear as they will, content will follow advertising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Google model, advertising follows editorial.  If I&#8217;m searching for &#8220;lawn fertilizer&#8221; or reading a gardening site, I&#8217;ll probably get a simple but fairly relevant text ad from Adwords or Adsense.   Most ads are unviewed, uninteresting and unclicked.  But the clicks add up to +$10B for Google.</p>
<p>Large media sites can&#8217;t live on the the CPMs this haphazard model produces.  The banner ads on most content sites are uniformily uninteresting, irrelevant  or worse, not there.  I popped over to CNET.  Found an article on &#8220;auto tech&#8221;.  No ads the page.  This would have been a perfect place for BMW or Sirius or LoJack to place a banner.  Instead nothing.</p>
<p>The solution is for CNET to have a preexisting relationship with BMW et. al  to allow them to place their ad next to a story when deemed appropriate by the ad salesman/engineer.  Compensation would be based on CTR not CPM.</p>
<p>Naturally if this model is embraced by the NYTs and CNETs of the world, we&#8217;ll see more advertising-friendly editorial.  Well duh.  If subscription revenues disappear as they will, content will follow advertising.</p>
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		<title>By: ? Certamente! O meu filtro de spam está cada vez mais inteligente</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-163710</link>
		<dc:creator>? Certamente! O meu filtro de spam está cada vez mais inteligente</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-163710</guid>
		<description>[...] não elucidam como deviam (a maioria não faz a mínima ideia, suspeito), podiam começar por ler The Poor State Of Online Display Advertising Relevancy. De que serve comprar 10.000 milhões de pageviews, endereços de e-mail, ou perfis no Hi5, se não [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] não elucidam como deviam (a maioria não faz a mínima ideia, suspeito), podiam começar por ler The Poor State Of Online Display Advertising Relevancy. De que serve comprar 10.000 milhões de pageviews, endereços de e-mail, ou perfis no Hi5, se não [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Karp</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-163697</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Karp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-163697</guid>
		<description>Jay,

The problem with behavioral targeting is that no matter how large the network, the web is SO large that it&#039;s easy for me to come to NYTimes.com without having visited any other Tacoda network sites, thus giving Tacoda NO data to use for targeting ads to me. 

In such an instances, NYTimes.com might be better off running house ads than these crumby network ads and annoying me as a user -- the CPM is so low, they might just hold the line and say we&#039;re not going to run anything here unless we can sell it and make it worthy of the user experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay,</p>
<p>The problem with behavioral targeting is that no matter how large the network, the web is SO large that it&#8217;s easy for me to come to NYTimes.com without having visited any other Tacoda network sites, thus giving Tacoda NO data to use for targeting ads to me. </p>
<p>In such an instances, NYTimes.com might be better off running house ads than these crumby network ads and annoying me as a user &#8212; the CPM is so low, they might just hold the line and say we&#8217;re not going to run anything here unless we can sell it and make it worthy of the user experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Small</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-163670</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Small</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-163670</guid>
		<description>At least one of the ads (online degree) in the NYTimes.com rotation you used as an example appears to be &quot;remnant-grade.&quot; It isn&#039;t even an attempt to target.

If it came out of Tacoda&#039;s network, and not from a rotation between Tacoda and the NYT ad server, that would suggest Tacoda&#039;s network isn&#039;t exactly sold out of targetable campaigns.

Now, I know I&#039;m connecting the dots from speculation to speculation, which is risky, but this would seem to back up the point that behavior targeting needs both very consistent means for applying targeting rules AND truly massive scale. If mighty NYTimes.com hasn&#039;t the scale nor the addressable user profiles to do it, what hope is there for smaller online services?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least one of the ads (online degree) in the NYTimes.com rotation you used as an example appears to be &#8220;remnant-grade.&#8221; It isn&#8217;t even an attempt to target.</p>
<p>If it came out of Tacoda&#8217;s network, and not from a rotation between Tacoda and the NYT ad server, that would suggest Tacoda&#8217;s network isn&#8217;t exactly sold out of targetable campaigns.</p>
<p>Now, I know I&#8217;m connecting the dots from speculation to speculation, which is risky, but this would seem to back up the point that behavior targeting needs both very consistent means for applying targeting rules AND truly massive scale. If mighty NYTimes.com hasn&#8217;t the scale nor the addressable user profiles to do it, what hope is there for smaller online services?</p>
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		<title>By: Clyde Smith</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-163480</link>
		<dc:creator>Clyde Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-163480</guid>
		<description>I recently set up a site and included an Amazon affiliate ad that shows stuff related to what I&#039;ve been interested in at Amazon recently.

It&#039;s weird cause I knew what it was, I put it up but it still felt invasive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently set up a site and included an Amazon affiliate ad that shows stuff related to what I&#8217;ve been interested in at Amazon recently.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s weird cause I knew what it was, I put it up but it still felt invasive.</p>
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		<title>By: Digital Media Wire &#124; connecting people & knowledge</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-167582</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Media Wire &#124; connecting people & knowledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-167582</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;poor state of online ad relevancy&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->poor state of online ad relevancy<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Digital Media Wire &#124; connecting people & knowledge</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-170927</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Media Wire &#124; connecting people & knowledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-170927</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;    [IMG]Following up on my post about the poor state of online ad relevancy, I’ve been digging deeper with some of the companies that are working to improve that state, which lead to the following interview with Larry Allen, SVP, Business Development and Marketing at TACODA. Believe it or not, we completed this interview&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->    [IMG]Following up on my post about the poor state of online ad relevancy, I’ve been digging deeper with some of the companies that are working to improve that state, which lead to the following interview with Larry Allen, SVP, Business Development and Marketing at TACODA. Believe it or not, we completed this interview<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Conversion Rater</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-171512</link>
		<dc:creator>Conversion Rater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-171512</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;display advertising continues to lack relevancy&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->display advertising continues to lack relevancy<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By:  Blog + Mash = Bloash at A Mash Of Blogs</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-164629</link>
		<dc:creator> Blog + Mash = Bloash at A Mash Of Blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-164629</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;  Scott Karp has an interesting post on his Publishing 2.0 blog today about how display advertising continues to lack relevancy over 10 years into it’s life.  Being in the display advertising business, you’d think I’d argue, but I won’t. He’s right, display advertising is still largely way too irrelevant and there is still a ton of improvement that can be done to help&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->  Scott Karp has an interesting post on his Publishing 2.0 blog today about how display advertising continues to lack relevancy over 10 years into it’s life.  Being in the display advertising business, you’d think I’d argue, but I won’t. He’s right, display advertising is still largely way too irrelevant and there is still a ton of improvement that can be done to help<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By:  Thoughts on Media</title>
		<link>http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/comment-page-1/#comment-164006</link>
		<dc:creator> Thoughts on Media</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://publishing2.com/2007/07/15/the-poor-state-of-online-display-advertising-relevancy/#comment-164006</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;Interesting article on that by Scott Karp today&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->Interesting article on that by Scott Karp today<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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